Warning if you are new to DCT

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Dub3

New member
Howdy folks I know that all of you have seen reports of cars running through store fronts when parking out front. Right?

Well after using a manual shift with a clutch I have discovered a hazard with the Honda CTX 700ND. When one pulls up to a stop the rider will have his right hand on both the brake and throttle at the same time. If he is not carefull when he stops and releases the brake his hand might slip a little and guess what - z o o m he is off and running over everything in front of him. Normally one would have the clutch disengaged So as not to stall the engine and a few extra revs kinda sound neat at that time - not so with tha DCT in either auto or manual mode. After jumping the curb be sure to look around and count how many are laughing at you (or running for cover)
 
Yes, it is a learning situation. After a year, I think I have it mastered. Now, the problem is can I ride a standard without overly thinking about it. :) With the CTX, it is my understanding that the first stretch of throttle is not linear. This allows you to "baby" the throttle without a lot happening, but I do understand what you are saying.
 
I am not sure the OP has ever ridden a CTX, maybe even never driven an automobile with an automatic transmission. I've ridden over 100,000 miles on automatic scooters and motorcycles and have never seen or heard of such occurrences. I find it curious that this is the OP's first post?
 
I have heard of it and experienced it to a small degree, that is, all except the "ZOOM" part. In my opnion, you would really have to have the throttle "cranked" to rapidly shoot forward. What I experienced while learning to ride an automatic was creep at a stop sign that was very easy to rectify and learn not to let happen.
 
I had something happen to me that I could say was similar. While riding about 45 MPH a car in front of me jammed on the brakes. I reached across the brake handle with my 4 fingers, as I reached to squeeze the brake handle my hand also went forward on the throttle causing the bike to accelerate. It become brakes vs. engine. The ABS kicked in with significant pulsing of the brake handle and the brakes won.

This happened so fast I did not have time to analyze the situation, it was an immediate involuntary reaction. I did not want to let go of the brake/throttle because if I did I would hit the car in front of me. The bike stopped with with the engine sill off idle. It WAS unnerving. I can't say exactly what caused this anomaly, I did have gloves on which could have contributed, but can't say with certainty. It never happened again.
 
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randy1149 said:
I had something happen to me that I could say was similar. While riding about 45 MPH a car in front of me jammed on the breaks. I reached across the brake handle with my 4 fingers, as I reached to squeeze the brake handle my hand also went forward on the throttle causing the bike to accelerate. It become brakes vs. engine. The ABS kicked in with significant pulsing of the brake handle and the brakes won.

This happened so fast I did not have time to analyze the situation, it was an immediate involuntary reaction. I did not want to let go of the brake/throttle because if I did I would hit the car in front of me. The bike stopped with with the engine sill off idle. It WAS unnerving. I can't say exactly what caused this anomaly, I did have gloves on which could have contributed, but can't say with certainty. It never happened again.
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Yes Randy, that is a much better description of it than mine, except for me there wasn't that much drama. I will make note of the scenario today and document what happens in terms of hand movements when I hit the front brake hard. Like I said, it has never been a real problem for me.

This makes me think though. Am I crazy (don't answer that) or weren't there some posts in old threads of owners moving their brake to the left side? I never read the threads so I could be wrong?
 
They moved the rear brake to the left handle bars and adjusting to the automatic is a learning experience.
 
The twist-and-go-ness of the DCT gets me in certain rough road conditions. For example, when I'm riding over a certain railroad crossing in the small city where I work.

There are two sets of tracks side by side, and they are not level with one another. The rear of the bike gets a firm kick upwards, and sometimes I have to grab the handle bars pretty firmly -- which, if I'm not careful, means I rev the motor. Without a clutch lever to modulate this ... you get the idea. <Blush>
 
This is all about learned behaviors.
It only happens because you are used to the clutch and expect the bike to behave a certain way.
If you had experience riding scooters, this would not happen to you.
 
Merlin III said:
I have heard of it and experienced it to a small degree, that is, all except the "ZOOM" part. In my opnion, you would really have to have the throttle "cranked" to rapidly shoot forward. What I experienced while learning to ride an automatic was creep at a stop sign that was very easy to rectify and learn not to let happen.
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After giving the situation more thought I believe what happens is that approaching a curb or other object, if I am a little fast and apply the brakes harder to stop suddenly to avoid bumping the curb, this sudden stop throws the body forward and causes the right hand to rotate downward slightly causing bike to accelerate. I have never had this experience when stopping with unlimited room. I'm sure my depth perception and rate of closing judgement are at fault. At 82 the eyes and judgment are not what they were at 30:(
 
popeyoni said:
This is all about learned behaviors.
It only happens because you are used to the clutch and expect the bike to behave a certain way.
If you had experience riding scooters, this would not happen to you.
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Well I rode a scooter (Cushman) back around 1945 to deliver newspapers, but that was a long time ago and it didn't have the power of a CTX and one could almost hold it in place with power applied.
 
Merlin III said:
... weren't there some posts in old threads of owners moving their brake to the left side? ...
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Yes, I moved my rear brake to left handlebar (twice already) for exactly the reason OP described. Now I have much better control and confidence. Another thing - on traffic stops I switch to Neutral very often, except when I may predict that stop maybe brief.
 
I can see where a newbie could have a problem.
I have only test ridden scoots with cvt and found myself in a similar situation.
I think 10-15 min riding will get you familiar enough so the potential for recurrence would be minimal.
 
OK I know what everyone is talking about, now the fix. You 1st have to adjust the bike, lube the two cables, one is the pull or on and the other is the return or off. adjust them so "the on" at rest is at idle, 1/4" of play, then it starts to pull (or move the bike), the return, you want to get has tight has you can, so it will return has fast has it can. before adjusting the cables it is best to lube the grip, remove it a put a thin layer of lube and then replace it, turn it and it should be very smooth, now lube your cables and adjust. Now the part of how to use the grip and brake: Put your hand in the air like you are on the bike holding the grip, reach out with all four fingers, when you do this the base of your hand and thumb, turn down. Try this (in the air) with your fingers higher then your wrist and you will see what I am talking about. So now on your bike, see where your fingers are (reaching for brake) and where your wrist is, if your wrist is lower then your fingers, when you brake (holding the grip at the same time) you will make the bike accelerate. The fix is to lower your handlebars or lower your brake lever. If you can not do that, try this: When you brake, reach with all four fingers, at the same time take your thumb and base of your hand off the grip, let your fingers grip the brake lever (like you would the grip) and then pull back, your thumb and base of your hand will then grip the handlebar grip. This will give your bike cable (return) time to work and at the same time not reduce your braking
time. It will also help with certain rough road conditions, like Woodswoman is talking about. You will have to practice this so it becomes law of how you ride, most people never learn this and just pull in the clutch not even thinking this is happening. The DCT is a fine thing to have and some people would say it is EZ'er to ride, but if you think about it a bike with a clutch maybe ex'er if you have been not working the grip and brake lever together and using the clutch to cover that up. Whatever happened to down shifting?
Back to the OP, "When one pulls up to a stop the rider will have his right hand on both the brake and throttle at the same time. If he is not carefull when he stops and releases the brake his hand might slip a little and guess what - z o o m he is off and running over everything in front of him" For this the fix is: hold the brake lever with your fingers, put your foot on the brake, lift your thumb and base of hand off the grip, then let go of the brake lever, grab the grip, feel the bike coming off idle, let your foot off the brake and go. Practice this by, coming to a stop, use your right foot to hold the bike stopped, left foot to hold the bike up, left hand to hold the handlebars,and now use your right hand to point where you will be going (remove your right hand from the grip/brake lever)...try it. Have fun with it and what you (OP) where talking about will never happen again. Note here, that I have been teaching people how to ride for over 30 years, I myself practice all the time, it is hard to explain how to ride on a forum, little things that you never thought about can get you into trouble without seeing you riding in person I can only try and help. Please PM me for more details/help, I am always happy to see a rider, ride better and safer.
 
mjc said:
Put your hand in the air like you are on the bike holding the grip, reach out with all four fingers, when you do this the base of your hand and thumb, turn down. Try this (in the air) with your fingers higher then your wrist and you will see what I am talking about. So now on your bike, see where your fingers are (reaching for brake) and where your wrist is, if your wrist is lower then your fingers, when you brake (holding the grip at the same time) you will make the bike accelerate.
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Agreed, 100%. Changing my hand position going into anticipated trouble spots, such as that RR crossing on Smith Avenue in Kingston, prevents the 'oops' moment I described.

Sometimes, though, I simply forget to set myself up properly before reaching that crossing. <Blush, again>

Dub3, welcome to the forum! I think it's fantastic that you're 82 and still riding!! :D
 
Dub3 your body moving forward on hard braking is a very plausible contribution to this problem. I can't say it's a cock pit error if your body becomes 400 lbs. by the laws of inertia.

Another "issue" that I have in my head, when I gave a friend a test ride I make it as strong as I can DO NOT BLIP THE THROTTLE when stopped anytime, anywhere. I emphasize to them the bike does not go into neutral and they will accelerate into the vehicle in front of them. We are all common to those "friends" who can't come to a stop and let the world know they have arrived by throttle bliping.
 
I think it's relevant to mention that if I did not have ABS I have no doubt I would have lost the bike... either dropping the bike or hitting the car in front of me. The "competition" between the brakes and throttle in getting the bike safely stopped, ABS played a significant role. I'm sold, even if you never experience ABS kicking in... it's still worth the price... IMHO. Hopefully it should be mandatory like Canada.
 
I've never had the ABS kick in, but I'm glad I have it. I hope it works. :D

One thing I wonder about is that if you lock up both of the tires in an emergency, the bike thinks it's not moving, so would the ABS work?

It's not important, but I noticed that the time it shows when we make a post is off by about a half an hour.
 
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It is my understanding that you can't lock up the brakes (wheels). I have used ABS in all out panic mode and IMO it saved my life. It stopped me just short of the rear bumper of the car in front of me. Quasi foggy conditions, never been on said road, stop sign placed in a weird place, me taking 2 seconds to attempt to read a road sign, car in front of me stopping for an obscure stop sign, equals a panic stop and near miss. I will never ride without ABS.
 
Steven said:
I've never had the ABS kick in, but I'm glad I have it. I hope it works. :D

One thing I wonder about is that if you lock up both of the tires in an emergency, the bike thinks it's not moving, so would the ABS work?

It's not important, but I noticed that the time it shows when we make a post is off by about a half an hour.
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Interesting point Steven. I don't know much about ABS on the CTX but have some knowledge about autos and I understand it is designed to eliminate wheel lock up when brakes are applied. That being said how does it know you are coming to a stop? Don't the wheels stop moving then(lock-up)? Never known ABS to prevent you from coming to a complete stop :-)
 
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