2014 Honda NC700X - DCT Failure at 6,300 miles...

telecam

New member
Dear all,

I am a member of the NC700 sister Forum and have experienced a serious issue with the DCT on my 2014 NC700X at only 6,300 miles. Despite 3 repair attempts and now 67 days in waiting, the dealer has been unable to fix my issue with DCT getting stuck in gear and making the bike inoperable. They have changed battery, clutch pack, PCM module, oil & filters at great costs and I am still having trouble and need to have the bike towed back to the dealer once again. Both NC700 and CTX700 share the same DCT system and I thought I would seek additional guidance and compassion... here. Since purchasing my bike new in 2015, I have been an unabated advocate of DCT but that recent experience is really making me reconsidering my judgement. In reading through many threads involving DCT incidents, it seems like all of them get resolved one way or another by doing a simple calibration (DDSDS button sequence) . I am just wondering if anyone here has had a more serious issue with their DCT that involved lengthy troubleshooting and several trips to the shop. I have an open case with Honda PowerSports Customer Care which doesn't seem to get much traction and dealer is slow moving and unresponsive.

Take are,

See my issue message thread on the NC700 Forum here:
https://www.nc700-forum.com/forum/nc700-technical/14521-dct-issue-9.html
 

ponydrvr

Member
I had a single incident of transmission lockup one time. I was able to trouble
shoot the problem to a loose and defective ground connection for the wiring loom. In fact I found three loose ground connections, one was so loose that the fastener screw was missing. Strange thing was that it was not one that was easily visible. There are some folk remedies loose on the other forum about shutdown procedures being a root cause. Not sure about them cause I have never followed their advise and never had an issue.
 

kujawskir

Member
My sympathy you have, though not of much worth. Mine's manual and everyone I talk to seems to think the DCT is bulletproof, except needing a certain type of restart if turned off while in gear or something like that.

Anyway, some guys at https://www.ctx700forum.com/ have hundreds of K on their DCT and give advice quick. I think they are wrong about the danger of the engine shut-off switch, but not so much that it would cause or stop your problem or any other that I know of. Anyway, they are probably more right than I, since I've only been riding for two years, about 7000+ miles.

Good luck!
 

mtvic

Member
Read your link, real disappointing. Sounds like a freaky thing. They may be on to something with the heat issue and sensors... but that doesn't explain after it cools down why you can't get it back in neutral. If you haven't already, time to get the regional manager involved directly. Meet up with him at the dealer. Face to face makes you more human and not just another customer, and harder for him ignore issues. Don't beat on him, use the Golden Rule.
 

12MANY

New member
Sorry to hear of your problems. I have a DCT with 7000 mi with no issues. After reading your thread it appears that the Tech has no diagnostic skills and is just a poke and hope parts re-placer. Honda probably wont pay the shops warranty claims because they did not follow the proper protocol to be compensated for it and that’s not your fault. Even on the repair order it states “ Technician disassembled clutch pack which is not recommended” ?
They charged you top dollar for the PGM-FI unit $740.99 where it can be bought online retail for $488.90. If your on the hook for it through some sort of written agreement at least tell them you will only pay what Honda charged them for it since it was not the problem. I would be nice at first and ask them to replace it with your old unit , agree to pay the $200.00 diag fee and call it even then take the bike to a competent Tech possibly recommended by the Honda Dist Rep. Your issues sure sound like the loose shifter pin issue. Judging by the competence of the Tech how closely did he inspect the shifter pin? Did he just look at it and say its there and doesn’t look broke or did he put a torque wrench on it and make sure it was torqued to spec so I still would not rule out that possibility. Good luck and I hope you find a solution soon.

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/38770-MJL-A52
 

telecam

New member
I am have been quite docile so far. No yelling, no screaming, paid all repair bills... Honda wouldn't put me in touch with the District Service Manager. Had a disappointing call with my Honda Customer Care case agent today. They are pretty much dropping the ball, asking me to work with the dealer to get it fixed or see with their sales dpt if they would take my bike as a trade in for a new one. He says it's consistent with the company policy, they never deal on a case by case basis,... Dealer is unresponsive and doesn't return phone calls or emails. Just for everyone to be warned, Honda doesn't stand behind their products! Sounds like at that point, I may be better off donating it to my fellow forum members. Any advice on my next move if any?
 

12MANY

New member
I am have been quite docile so far. No yelling, no screaming, paid all repair bills... Honda wouldn't put me in touch with the District Service Manager. Had a disappointing call with my Honda Customer Care case agent today. They are pretty much dropping the ball, asking me to work with the dealer to get it fixed or see with their sales dpt if they would take my bike as a trade in for a new one. He says it's consistent with the company policy, they never deal on a case by case basis,... Dealer is unresponsive and doesn't return phone calls or emails. Just for everyone to be warned, Honda doesn't stand behind their products! Sounds like at that point, I may be better off donating it to my fellow forum members. Any advice on my next move if any?

I cant believe the Honda rep had the nerve to suggest you try to get Coleman to take the bike in on a trade for a new one .The bike has a simple problem that can easily be solved by a qualified technician. I would be so embarrassed from them laughing so hard at the suggestion on taking it in on trade. They already know they are too incompetent to repair the bike to resale it so what is it worth to them? After the way you have been treated how could you ever even consider buying another a Honda!! Repair order says “ ALL WORK WARRANTIED 30 DAYS OR 1000 MILES in caps. No mater what the invoice says I think you can sue them in small claims court and at least get your money back to apply to getting it repaired. For the next 7 business days that they are open each day I would I call and ask to speak to anyone about your issue, the higher up the better. Record the call if it is legal in your state or document the time and who you talked to. Go on their website and collect every email address you can find including their other locations that will be affected by your trashing of them. Email every one every day for 7 business days and attach the invoice and link to your NC700 thread, especially anyone in sales who depends on commission for sales for assistance. Send a printed email certified mail return receipt stating that you paid to have the bike repaired and it is not and would like to have it repaired under their warranty. How would you like to proceeded on this matter, I am open to any suggestions. The higher ups may not be aware of how the service dept. has treated you and if the sales people complain to shut you up you may get some attention. If after 7 days of no responses its off to small claims court. In Florida it’s a 70.00 filing fee and you can sue up to $5000.00. I think is like on tv where you get around 5 minuets to plead your case. Take lots of documentation to submit. Even the Honda care suggesting you work it out with the dealer. Your honor I paid Coleman Power Sports $951.50 to repair my motorcycle with a 30 day warranty and the bike is still broken. I did due diligence In every way I could requesting this issue be resolved but they refuse to communicate back with me leaving me with no other option but to drag them into court at tax payers expense to resolve the issue.

Most dealers have consolidated and sell many brands of bikes and most Techs are trained to service many brands. Phone calls are cheap. Call around your immediate area to all the bike shops closest to you and explane your situation and ask do you have a Tech familiar with the Honda DCT that be willing to look at it. What you have in it the bike is still worth investing in its repair wisely.
 

telecam

New member
Thanks 12MANY, I think I can easily get my last bill taken care by Amex. The case is well documented. This has been so time consuming and nerving that at this point, I need to find a quick and easy exit. Probably trade in the bike or sell it for half its worth (maybe 2K) to whomever wants it. I will however continue and ramp up my bashing of Honda PowerSports Customer Care, their response to the case has been pathetic at best.
 

mtvic

Member
Personally I'd try:

Call where you have the bike, ask the parts/service dept manager for the district managers name and contact information. Document everything particularly if they refuse. Then ask for the dealer's owner contact info. If they continue to refuse, call another dealer, tell them you met him once, he was helpful, you can't remember his name and wanted to send him a personal thank you note. Also try Linked In for a look up and State Incorporation website for Dealer's owner. Write them and go meet them in person.

Also see if you local TV station has a reporter that does "...On Your Side." Here is 8 on Your Side. They review cases, then go interview parties, try to help get to bottom of situation and usual win due to possible negative publicity.


Unfortunately if all this doesn't work, you need to talk with an attorney. You may have recourse against dealer for cost of all repairs and then you can find a new dealer who WILL work with Honda properly to get it repaired knowing the history. You may be able to do this all in small claims court. in fact, you may get a check/settlement before court date as they general send their lawyer to the court and it will be cheaper for them to settle.
 

12MANY

New member

Nice looking bike. Imagine if you had a $30,000 dollar 2018 Gold Wing DCT with your issues sitting in your garage nearing the end of the riding season. I have been following your thread on the NC forum and find it very informative. I hope they agree to your terms and take the bike in for a final repair. Good luck and let us know how it works out.
 

telecam

New member
Bike has now been at the shop for 81 days.... I missed Honda's response to my twitter feed from last week, looks like I have their attention. Let's see what my customer care agent has to say. Fingers crossed. #Hope

tweet.jpg
 

telecam

New member
Update (Day 82): Dealer called and said bike is fixed. They are confident the shifting motor was the source of the problem. They replaced it, rode the bike 30 miles in various conditions and will keep it one more day to test. Fingers crossed...

So to sum up:

1. Battery: replaced
2. Shifter pin: check
3. ECU (PCM) unit: replaced
4. Oil and filters: changed
5. Clutch pack: replaced
6: Shifting motor: replaced
 

12MANY

New member
Hope they nailed it this time. All of this grief over something so simple. On page 12-24 of the service manual there seems to be only one easy test for the motor itself. You would think they would have ruled this out before replacing the more expensive parts chasing it down. Thanks for posting this over here! I sure will use your experience if I run into any problems. Please let us know if you have any more issues with it.

Shift Control Motor Condition Inspection
Remove the shift control motor (page 12-70).
Connect a fully charged 12 V battery [1 J to the shift
control motor [2) 2P connector terminals to check
the motor operation.
Change the battery connection to check the reverse
operation.
Does the shift control motor turn in both
directions?
YES - GO TO STEP 4.
NO - Faulty shift control motor

PAGE 12-24
 

telecam

New member
Update (Day 84): So... IT'S FIXED. I rode the NC over 30 miles in fairly warm weather and intense city driving conditions and gear shifting was as smooth as it should be. It seems ridiculous that after 80 days at the shop, the culprit ended up being a very easy fix, the $220 shifting motor.

So, I want to first thank all on this great forum who have jumped to the rescue with advice, tips, suggestions and moral support. It has been quite a roller coaster since my bike was first towed to the dealer on July 11. I am also thanking the dealer (Coleman PowerSports) which at first was slow to respond and provided sub-par repairs and testing. That coincided with them being at the height of the season and short handed. At a time were they seamed ready to drop the ball and not want my bike back in the shop, things kicked into gear and in the past month, I have seen huge improvements in returning calls and emails and keeping me updated on the repair progress. To their credit, Honda tech services provided guidance in the last repair and mis-diagnosed a faulty PCM (ECU).... As for Honda PowerSports Customer Care, overall a very disappointing experience. Their reps are obviously trained to tame the customer and talk nice but they pretty much limit the scope of their actions to facilitate communications between dealer and customer. I know their products are good (I bought 3 Honda motorcycles and 2 cars so far...) but as with many companies who manufacture good products, they get cocky and don't give a shit about isolated incidents because they know they will get buried in the overwhelming positive image the company enjoys. Things turned a bit sour after I informed them I had started a twitter feed to share my DCT woes. They took notice right away and my customer care rep called inquiring about my intentions to share this on social media...

As for Honda's DCT, here are some thoughts.

- After riding in town over an hour today, it keeps reminding me how great and unique the system is. That is the very one thing that would make me hesitate to fall back to a classic gear shifting motorcycle. For the record, I have owned Hondas XL125, CB500, BMW GS650, F800ST...
- As far as I can tell, DCT is reliable. There are plenty of reports of riders with 30, 40, 50K and so miles with no issues at all. But if you search carefully, you will also find incidents here in there, most minor and easily taken care by resetting the DCT. More serious issues are related to a bad battery, loss of power, faulty connections, defective shifter pin or sensors.
- DCT works well and can save your clutch pack from premature wear but with its 6 sensors, shifting motor, dual clutches and PCM, it definitely adds complication when comparing to a traditional bike. Despite the pretty thorough checklists in the service manual and the error codes the computer is supposed to record, there are obviously some gaps to fill when troubleshooting problems. In my case, there was no clear fault code that indicated a faulty shifting motor...
- I am happy to keep ridding a DCT bike in the city but in regard to my latest experience, I'd be a bit leery to do a long, adventure journey on one.

Coincidentally, as I was leaving the shop today, a mechanic told me a NC700X with 2,000 miles was brought in the day before with a similar DCT problem. I wished him good luck.

Thanks all!
 
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