Trouble in Paradise.

randy1149

New member
The 2018 Goldwing has a frontend spring/shock/bumper problem. The problem is the shock, with just a passenger it is less than 1/4" travel before it hits the bumper and no more travel left in the system. Oh boy... here we go. I had a 2003 GW with the overheating and frame breaking problems Honda had to be dragged thru the NTSB in tooth and nail to get Honda to fix the problems under warranty. Here's a Youtube video of the problem. Honda Link.

I have had several problems with Honda both cars and motorcycle that where systemic to the particular line and very expensive to fix. In both cases we had to go to the NTSB to get Honda to fix it. They weren't going to fix anything unless they were forced.

I also noticed on the 2018 Wing Honda still uses ball bearing on the steering system rather than roller bearing. Many of us owners for the older model had to replaced the bearings around 10K miles. Ball bearings have a short life on 900 lbs. bikes. Relubricate the bearings on the 2018 looks to be a $500-$600 job to get to the bearings. All the reason Timken roller bearing should have been used.

If I was in the GW market again I would keep my nose to the ground and not buy a Wing until Honda does the right thing and brings out a permanent fix to the shock.

P.S. Let me add my GW steering head bearings wore seats into the race from the balls. The steering created a slight tank slap as the balls vibrated in and out of the seats in the race. The complete seat and bearings had to be replaced. Why Honda uses these bearing on such a heavy bike is beyond me.
 
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burdicda

Member
I'm sure there is either not a problem or it will be fixed very very quickly...they are everywhere at bike week this year and my local dealer has a line of them probably 20 lined up to greet you as you come in the door...
 

MJC

Super Moderator
I think you're right there is a problem with the front end when I was on a test ride the bike did bottom out. When I mention this to the other test Riders they said they would look into it and I asked if they heard about the fella in Georgia who specialized in the front end fix. There was nothing else said about it and I do not believe that they are putting anything about it it in the article.
 

12MANY

New member
I have been watching all of the videos put out by Max McAllister Traxxion Dynamics on YouTube and find them very informative. Cant help but scratch my head how a huge company like Honda with all of its resources and probably the best engineers money can buy did not have the humility or common sense to hand a prototype bike over to a company on the outside that specializes in bike suspensions and have them critique it to avoid any embarrassing missed issues before going into production and distribution. Imagine the pounding the bearings are taking every time the front end bottoms out. I would think the bottoming out may also contribute to the steering tie rod end play issues. If I were seriously shopping for one, I would show the dealer the video and ask him if its fake or real and if fake its easy enough to prove on the showroom floor with someone sitting on the bike and a cell phone camera.
 

Glen e

New member
Went over to RIVA today to look at helmets and my sales guy said they had heard about it from their customers....esp loaded two up riding.....If all this is correct, (and there's actually no doubt that it is), this will be a huge hit on the wing… Sales wise…
 

randy1149

New member
12Many I brought up my ball bearings and the seats for exactly what you posted. The pounding the bearings will wear small seats in the race. Also I do not like the fact there is no crown nut to lock down the yolk to the bike. WTF is Honda doing?
 

12MANY

New member
It will be interesting to see what if anything Honda will do about the shock travel issue. Is it defective in warranty terms or is it just simply under sprung for a 200 lb rider? According to the internet the Ave. American male weighs 195.5 lbs and an Ave. Japanese male weighs 149 lbs. A 150 lb rider might say its adequately sprung for their weight no bottoming problems no defect.

It doesn’t appear that the shock has very much travel to begin with so if the spring rate isn’t spot on for your exact weight, the slightest amount of spring sag eats up all of the shock travel. Understanding this they should have designed some way to adjust the spring rate to suit different sized riders. With out any way to adjust the spring rate it will be hard for Honda to come up with a one size fits all solution where to correct the spring sag to satisfy a 150 , 200 , 250+ rider would all need different spring rates and in turn different dampening to suit. Maybe Honda will steal an idea from NASCAR and give you a box of different sized spring rubbers to jamb into the springs to change the spring rates as a cheap cure. The OEM replacement shock is $943.65 for an off the shelf supposedly electrically adjustable dampening shock that sucks. I wonder what it costs for Traxxion Dynamics to set the bike up correctly with a quality built shock? Even in the parts blowup the shock looks like it has hardly any travel until it hits the bump stop.

https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hon/5a4d626887a8660ed87a0419/cushion-arm
 
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mtvic

Member
Going to be interesting for sure. I sent the link for the video on the front shock to a friend in a GW Club. He forwarded it to 3 members who bought the new GW. He said non of them claim to have the issue. Only time will tell, unless Honda issues a service bulletin.
 

Shanghai Dan

New member
Yeah, I don't think this is real. Did people here realize that the rear shock on the CTX700 has less than 1" of travel? REALLY! However, that 1" is run through a lever arm of the swingarm, that gives you a 4:1 increase in range-of-motion of the rear wheel. So whilst the shock moves 1", the rear wheel can move a decent 4".

The 2018GW is the same kind of thing. It's NOT a standard tube shock - it's much more akin to the rear shock on a sport bike (or CTX). A half-inch of travel becomes 4.5" of travel because of the lengths of the lever arm. Too many people are ignoring that - and it's causing way too much consternation amongst those who really don't understand levers and such.
 

randy1149

New member
Here's a pix of the Youtube video with 1 man sitting on the bike. The travel is around 2-3mm. That's 2-3mm until the shock is no longer a shock, it's now just a spring. If I was in the market I would not buy a Wing until this issue gets resolved one way or the other. I DO NOT trust Honda at all considering what Honda did to it's customers in the past Goldwing with over heating, antifreeze spewing all over the rear wheel and frame cracking splitting in half... while your riding.
 

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MJC

Super Moderator
I think you can find something wrong with any new bike. But for some reason Honda seems to think that suspension is an afterthought or something for people who weigh 150 lb. I would not buy any bike that that simply just by sitting on it you can see the suspension bottom out. Plus the cost to fix
The problem is about $2,000 installed and you have to bring your bike to Georgia. Just something to think about.
 

Steven

Member
MJC - The CTX suspension is about the same. It's fine for a light person, but for heavier people or two up it's useless/dangerous when the roads get rough. At 300 lbs ride weight, there was about only 1 inch of available travel left on the suspension, both front and back. The bike would ride smooth on smooth pavement, but would constantly bottom out on anything else. It was close to 2 grand (give or take) to make the suspension adequate for every day travel, and much of that was doing the work myself. In terms of results, it was money well spent. The replacement rear shock also has more travel. I'm not sure how much more, but enough to make a difference. Anyway, the ride is now the least problem with the bike. Keep in mind that I changed my seat too.

I don't have any other bike to compare to, but I've heard some Harley riders complain how painful some of those bikes are during long rides. Of course the seat could have been the issue with those, but my neighbor had 3 different Harley's and he complained about the ride of everyone of them. I only used Harley as an example because you would think that heavy bikes like that would always ride nicer compared to a lightweight like the CTX.

You all know the rest...
 

MJC

Super Moderator
Steven , I agree and disagree. With the CTX the suspension is fine unless you add bags and other mods then if you put the bolt or nut all the way down it will be okay. If you any heavier then 200 lb then it's not so great. But that's all good for a bike that is $8500. On a Goldwing at 29 k you should not have to change any suspension before even driving it off the showroom floor.

Steve do you have your old rear shock with the
Gonzo mod I would like to try it so if you do PM me,
btw, still planning on going to IN this year.
MJ
 
FWIW, the stock CTX rear damper has about 40 mm (1.575") stroke with a claimed 4.3" of travel and the NC-spec HO 070 Ohlins is 56.5 mm stroke. The overall leverage ratio is roughly 2.7:1 which is on the higher side but not outside the normal range. There have been plenty of MXers with 3:1 (4" damper travel, 12" wheel travel).
 

Steven

Member
Steven , I agree and disagree. With the CTX the suspension is fine unless you add bags and other mods then if you put the bolt or nut all the way down it will be okay. If you any heavier then 200 lb then it's not so great. But that's all good for a bike that is $8500. On a Goldwing at 29 k you should not have to change any suspension before even driving it off the showroom floor.

Steve do you have your old rear shock with the
Gonzo mod I would like to try it so if you do PM me,
btw, still planning on going to IN this year.
MJ

Actually I did the full Gonzo mod on the original shock with mixed results. Because of the trimmed bumper guard I found the bike pogoing up and down on certain bumps. It lacked control. The shim adjustment went better for adjusting the sag, but that didn't help when it came to control during harder bumps. The oem shock was just too anemic for heavier riders. If you're going with the oem I suggest the shims to get your sag where it needs to be, and then just leave it alone.

Mike, the shock with the full mod, I threw away, I figured it was ruined. I had then bought another shock and then just did the shim adjustment. I still have that shock but kept it in the event that someday I might need a spare if I ever have my other one rebuilt. You only need the shims to get your sag set, I don't recommend cutting the bumper. It would be far cheaper to buy some washers/shims than pay to have a shock mailed back and forth.

I believe Ponydrvr did the full mod with good results. A second opinion wouldn't hurt.
 

MJC

Super Moderator
Thank you Steven, for the info. I guess what I want to do is adjust the sag so I can do the front forks. So I will just use the wahers in the rear and be happy with that.

I was looking for info on the Gonzo Ponydrvr Mod from heavier riders. At this time, all I can do is adjust the sag in the rear and install the adjustable (turn down bolt type) things that go on top of forks. To adjust front sag. Hope I do not get the pogo thing going...lol. I am saving up for all new aftermarkget parts, or maybe a better bike...

mj
 

Steven

Member
Thank you Steven, for the info. I guess what I want to do is adjust the sag so I can do the front forks. So I will just use the wahers in the rear and be happy with that.

I was looking for info on the Gonzo Ponydrvr Mod from heavier riders. At this time, all I can do is adjust the sag in the rear and install the adjustable (turn down bolt type) things that go on top of forks. To adjust front sag. Hope I do not get the pogo thing going...lol. I am saving up for all new aftermarkget parts, or maybe a better bike...

mj

Getting the sag set front and back is about all you can do with the oem and it does help quite a bit under most road conditions. The sharp hard bumps/dips will continue to be an issue. Even my fancy dancy after market shock isn't perfect, but it is a step in the right direction and, in my mind, money well spent.
 
You can set sag all you want, but if the spring rate is wrong for the load then it is wrong and sag isn't going to be more than a small band-aid on a wound that never heals. Spring preload adjustment is for making minor changes in ride height when there are modest changes in load, it doesn't replace getting the proper rate spring.

An advantage of the classic twin-damper setup is the dampers are easy to access and the springs are light enough that you may not need any special tools/compressors to change them to something more suitable. The CTX isn't as easy to deal with, but if you want a better ride then you'll need to begin the process of removing the motorcycle from the damper so you can change the spring (and probably the damper while you are at it).

cheers,
Michael
 

ofdave

Member
I weigh 200 lbs. with full gear.
I did the gonzo mod with no change in sag. Spring at full height, just enough turns on the collar to see two threads above it.
Not a Cadillac ride but in about 10,000 miles of riding, I only bottomed out 2 or 3 times, on some nasty roads.
Setting sag reduces shock travel and I did not want that.
I actually thought the ride was decent after the mod.
 
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